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	<title>Comments on: Recommendations on Buying an Esraj or Dilruba</title>
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	<link>http://harsangeet.com/2008/05/wanttobuyesraj/</link>
	<description>Classical Indian Music Lessons Online - Learn to play Dilruba, Esraj, TarShehnai, Taus</description>
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		<title>By: roclafamilia</title>
		<link>http://harsangeet.com/2008/05/wanttobuyesraj/comment-page-1/#comment-10796</link>
		<dc:creator>roclafamilia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harsangeet.com/?p=13#comment-10796</guid>
		<description>Helpful blog, bookmarked the website with hopes to read more!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Helpful blog, bookmarked the website with hopes to read more!</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://harsangeet.com/2008/05/wanttobuyesraj/comment-page-1/#comment-9431</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 23:47:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harsangeet.com/?p=13#comment-9431</guid>
		<description>I spoke too soon about my MKS Dilruba being ready to play “out of the box” and wanted to give a couple of tips if you’re thinking of ordering from them.  I have a little bit to say about Raj Musicals, too.    

MKS has a different design philosophy from some of the Panjab-based makers; it’s not necessarily wrong, it’s just different.  The first is the 6 main strings business.  MKS claims that this gives better tone, but with 20 sympathetic strings, you won’t notice if 2 main strings are removed.  I found that there was too much crowding with the 6 strings making it impossible to isolate the second string.  Their bridges are fairly flat, so chances are you’ll need to remove a couple.  You may also have to reposition one or two of the remaining strings along the bridge (I moved the second string over towards string 3).  This has not caused the bridge to shift in any way that sacrifices tone.

The other problem is that MKS tends to place the main string painfully high off the frets—about 2 cm at high Ga!  If you have built up calluses, this might not be a problem for you.  But ideally the string should only be about 1 cm from the fret at taar Ga.  After I lowered the main string about 1 cm, I had trouble isolating this string at taar Re &amp; Ga.  This is why I scooted the second string over—now I can go back to my sloppy playing.

Both of these issues can be handled with one simple tool: a guitar nut file.  Guitars often need work, too, so don’t be surprised if your Dilruba needs some tweeking.  I ordered a 0.032 inch Nut Slotting File from Stewart-MacDonald for $12.95.  This works great for all the different gauges on a Dilruba.

A third issue for me was one of the tarabs on the jawari bridge hit a fret.  My teacher removed the jawari bridge and problem solved without any changes in the quality of sound.

I’m very happy with my MKS Dilruba now.  It’s built extremely well and should last a long time.

You might also consider the Raj Academy approved models at Raj Musicals.  These are built with much higher standards (or at least standards!) to detail.  I’ve recently seen several of these and they do seem to be ready to go out of the box.  They were louder than I expected and have a nice tone.  They’re very light weight and made out of really thin toon wood; I don’t know if this is a good thing or a bad thing!  They aren’t necessarily built to last “forever” though--maybe 6 to 8 years.  For some reason, they don’t put a protective strip of leather between the skin and the bridge.  Maybe this is why they’re so loud, but it probably shortens their life as well.  I do like the larger, heavier horse-hair bow that they come with.  You can pay by credit card at RM if you go through Western Union.  

Another possibility it to just order a cheapy off of Ebay, because no matter what you order and how much you spend, you’ll probably have to futz around with it a bit.  You could end up with something that sounds perfectly fine and you’ll learn a lot about the instrument in the process of working on it.  I’m thinking of going this route with an Esraj.  

Good luck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spoke too soon about my MKS Dilruba being ready to play “out of the box” and wanted to give a couple of tips if you’re thinking of ordering from them.  I have a little bit to say about Raj Musicals, too.    </p>
<p>MKS has a different design philosophy from some of the Panjab-based makers; it’s not necessarily wrong, it’s just different.  The first is the 6 main strings business.  MKS claims that this gives better tone, but with 20 sympathetic strings, you won’t notice if 2 main strings are removed.  I found that there was too much crowding with the 6 strings making it impossible to isolate the second string.  Their bridges are fairly flat, so chances are you’ll need to remove a couple.  You may also have to reposition one or two of the remaining strings along the bridge (I moved the second string over towards string 3).  This has not caused the bridge to shift in any way that sacrifices tone.</p>
<p>The other problem is that MKS tends to place the main string painfully high off the frets—about 2 cm at high Ga!  If you have built up calluses, this might not be a problem for you.  But ideally the string should only be about 1 cm from the fret at taar Ga.  After I lowered the main string about 1 cm, I had trouble isolating this string at taar Re &amp; Ga.  This is why I scooted the second string over—now I can go back to my sloppy playing.</p>
<p>Both of these issues can be handled with one simple tool: a guitar nut file.  Guitars often need work, too, so don’t be surprised if your Dilruba needs some tweeking.  I ordered a 0.032 inch Nut Slotting File from Stewart-MacDonald for $12.95.  This works great for all the different gauges on a Dilruba.</p>
<p>A third issue for me was one of the tarabs on the jawari bridge hit a fret.  My teacher removed the jawari bridge and problem solved without any changes in the quality of sound.</p>
<p>I’m very happy with my MKS Dilruba now.  It’s built extremely well and should last a long time.</p>
<p>You might also consider the Raj Academy approved models at Raj Musicals.  These are built with much higher standards (or at least standards!) to detail.  I’ve recently seen several of these and they do seem to be ready to go out of the box.  They were louder than I expected and have a nice tone.  They’re very light weight and made out of really thin toon wood; I don’t know if this is a good thing or a bad thing!  They aren’t necessarily built to last “forever” though&#8211;maybe 6 to 8 years.  For some reason, they don’t put a protective strip of leather between the skin and the bridge.  Maybe this is why they’re so loud, but it probably shortens their life as well.  I do like the larger, heavier horse-hair bow that they come with.  You can pay by credit card at RM if you go through Western Union.  </p>
<p>Another possibility it to just order a cheapy off of Ebay, because no matter what you order and how much you spend, you’ll probably have to futz around with it a bit.  You could end up with something that sounds perfectly fine and you’ll learn a lot about the instrument in the process of working on it.  I’m thinking of going this route with an Esraj.  </p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
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		<title>By: mnv</title>
		<link>http://harsangeet.com/2008/05/wanttobuyesraj/comment-page-1/#comment-8661</link>
		<dc:creator>mnv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 07:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harsangeet.com/?p=13#comment-8661</guid>
		<description>Hi Ross, 

ideally - you get to try before you buy  like Lisa  mentioned.  in which case the individual instrument will convince you - the brand doesn&#039;t matter.

if you can&#039;t - then my recommendations still stand. the feedback i&#039;ve been getting from people who have bought from MKS  has been good.  

When you&#039;re dealing with shops from india -(even MKS)- Know exactly what you want and be strong when communicating with them.
 If they try to convince you otherwise  .. tell them to put your order on hold while you check elsewhere.
You can&#039;t be humble or innocent when talking to them - they&#039;ll walk all over you .  

Regards,
Manav</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ross, </p>
<p>ideally &#8211; you get to try before you buy  like Lisa  mentioned.  in which case the individual instrument will convince you &#8211; the brand doesn&#8217;t matter.</p>
<p>if you can&#8217;t &#8211; then my recommendations still stand. the feedback i&#8217;ve been getting from people who have bought from MKS  has been good.  </p>
<p>When you&#8217;re dealing with shops from india -(even MKS)- Know exactly what you want and be strong when communicating with them.<br />
 If they try to convince you otherwise  .. tell them to put your order on hold while you check elsewhere.<br />
You can&#8217;t be humble or innocent when talking to them &#8211; they&#8217;ll walk all over you .  </p>
<p>Regards,<br />
Manav</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://harsangeet.com/2008/05/wanttobuyesraj/comment-page-1/#comment-8657</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harsangeet.com/?p=13#comment-8657</guid>
		<description>Hi Manav.

I am considering buying an esraj or dilruba from one of the sources mentioned in the discussion (Raj Musicals, DMS, MKS, etc.). Since you first posted your recommendations almost 2 years ago, I was wondering if you still hold the same view toward those companies and their products or if it has changed since then. Also, are there any new sources you would recommend today?

Thanks,
Ross</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Manav.</p>
<p>I am considering buying an esraj or dilruba from one of the sources mentioned in the discussion (Raj Musicals, DMS, MKS, etc.). Since you first posted your recommendations almost 2 years ago, I was wondering if you still hold the same view toward those companies and their products or if it has changed since then. Also, are there any new sources you would recommend today?</p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
Ross</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://harsangeet.com/2008/05/wanttobuyesraj/comment-page-1/#comment-7378</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 22:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harsangeet.com/?p=13#comment-7378</guid>
		<description>I just bought a dilruba a couple of days ago.  The information here and David Courtney’s site has been extremely helpful in pointing me in the right direction!  I was able to go in person over to the AACM store in San Rafael where they had two MKS dilrubas and an MKS esraj for me to horse around on.  One dilruba had machine head fittings and the other just pegs (like all other Indian stringed instruments).  It was clear that the peg one had a much better tone, so that’s the one I went for--I can always swap out the pegs later.  Also, since the maker shellacked the skin of the one with the machine head tuners (apparently to protect it against weather variation), we weren’t sure if it would ever break-in enough to match the tone of the one I got.  

The moral: if possible, go try them out in person or order from a music store that specializes in Indian instruments and has their own quality control...and ask a lot of questions!  You’ll pay a premium for this, but if you’re new to string instruments like me and want to avoid fixer-uppers (for now), it’s a good way to go.  Ask them to through in a hard case and tabla ring for free.    

The only quirky thing about my dilruba is the sympathetic string closest to the Jawari strings hits the last fret (welcome to Indian instruments).  It’s not a deal breaker, though; I damped that string for now, and it still sounds great!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just bought a dilruba a couple of days ago.  The information here and David Courtney’s site has been extremely helpful in pointing me in the right direction!  I was able to go in person over to the AACM store in San Rafael where they had two MKS dilrubas and an MKS esraj for me to horse around on.  One dilruba had machine head fittings and the other just pegs (like all other Indian stringed instruments).  It was clear that the peg one had a much better tone, so that’s the one I went for&#8211;I can always swap out the pegs later.  Also, since the maker shellacked the skin of the one with the machine head tuners (apparently to protect it against weather variation), we weren’t sure if it would ever break-in enough to match the tone of the one I got.  </p>
<p>The moral: if possible, go try them out in person or order from a music store that specializes in Indian instruments and has their own quality control&#8230;and ask a lot of questions!  You’ll pay a premium for this, but if you’re new to string instruments like me and want to avoid fixer-uppers (for now), it’s a good way to go.  Ask them to through in a hard case and tabla ring for free.    </p>
<p>The only quirky thing about my dilruba is the sympathetic string closest to the Jawari strings hits the last fret (welcome to Indian instruments).  It’s not a deal breaker, though; I damped that string for now, and it still sounds great!</p>
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		<title>By: Anattabodhi</title>
		<link>http://harsangeet.com/2008/05/wanttobuyesraj/comment-page-1/#comment-5774</link>
		<dc:creator>Anattabodhi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 04:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harsangeet.com/?p=13#comment-5774</guid>
		<description>I am looking for a dilruba I can buy online and am frequently seeing one made by Mid-East. Are you at all familiar with this manufacturer? I played a dilruba a friend had gotten in India that was 50 years old, but after a couple years he wanted it back. Though I had the instrument a couple years, I am not an experienced musician, and wouldn&#039;t be able to get an instrument into shape that arrived with anything more than tuning needed. But the prices I&#039;m seeing for MKS is twice that I&#039;m seeing for the Mid-East models. 

As a new player, I feel stuck in the middle. On the one hand, I need a good instrument because I can&#039;t correct an &quot;off&quot; one, but on the other hand I many not be a good enough musician for the difference between a good instrument and a great one to show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am looking for a dilruba I can buy online and am frequently seeing one made by Mid-East. Are you at all familiar with this manufacturer? I played a dilruba a friend had gotten in India that was 50 years old, but after a couple years he wanted it back. Though I had the instrument a couple years, I am not an experienced musician, and wouldn&#8217;t be able to get an instrument into shape that arrived with anything more than tuning needed. But the prices I&#8217;m seeing for MKS is twice that I&#8217;m seeing for the Mid-East models. </p>
<p>As a new player, I feel stuck in the middle. On the one hand, I need a good instrument because I can&#8217;t correct an &#8220;off&#8221; one, but on the other hand I many not be a good enough musician for the difference between a good instrument and a great one to show.</p>
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		<title>By: Musiclover</title>
		<link>http://harsangeet.com/2008/05/wanttobuyesraj/comment-page-1/#comment-4210</link>
		<dc:creator>Musiclover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harsangeet.com/?p=13#comment-4210</guid>
		<description>I just bought a new esraj made by DMS.  It was well built with machine head tuning on all main strings and sympathetic strings.  My problem is that there is a wolf tone (a kind of uncontrollable wah-wah sound all over the place) while playing the Shuddha Ma when tuned to concert C.  I can actually feel this vibration on my finger tip while playing Ma on the fret. I am aware the cello player has this common problem but not aware of it on the esraj.  I had another esraj made by MKS and there is no problem.  Anyone with any suggestion to eliminate this will be great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just bought a new esraj made by DMS.  It was well built with machine head tuning on all main strings and sympathetic strings.  My problem is that there is a wolf tone (a kind of uncontrollable wah-wah sound all over the place) while playing the Shuddha Ma when tuned to concert C.  I can actually feel this vibration on my finger tip while playing Ma on the fret. I am aware the cello player has this common problem but not aware of it on the esraj.  I had another esraj made by MKS and there is no problem.  Anyone with any suggestion to eliminate this will be great.</p>
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		<title>By: jujhar gill</title>
		<link>http://harsangeet.com/2008/05/wanttobuyesraj/comment-page-1/#comment-200</link>
		<dc:creator>jujhar gill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harsangeet.com/?p=13#comment-200</guid>
		<description>sat sri akal ,

I also have a dil ruba, i bought mine from
GURDIAL SINGH &amp; SONS , they are in jalander close to phagwara gate i think ther the best ones out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sat sri akal ,</p>
<p>I also have a dil ruba, i bought mine from<br />
GURDIAL SINGH &amp; SONS , they are in jalander close to phagwara gate i think ther the best ones out there.</p>
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		<title>By: mnv</title>
		<link>http://harsangeet.com/2008/05/wanttobuyesraj/comment-page-1/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator>mnv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 04:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harsangeet.com/?p=13#comment-131</guid>
		<description>Pritpal Ji -  that&#039;s exactly the link I read 80% of the information I gave you from. Thank you for posting it -  I was unable to find it earlier.

 The honeycomb thing is an idea from another Luthier&#039;s site - which I read quite some time ago. 

Here is another interesting idea for a bridge : http://www.dennishavlena.com/acoustic.htm
   I can&#039;t guarantee it will work very well on the dilruba , but it looks like it would be quite &quot;safe&quot; for the skin.

Good luck,
GurFateh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pritpal Ji &#8211;  that&#8217;s exactly the link I read 80% of the information I gave you from. Thank you for posting it &#8211;  I was unable to find it earlier.</p>
<p> The honeycomb thing is an idea from another Luthier&#8217;s site &#8211; which I read quite some time ago. </p>
<p>Here is another interesting idea for a bridge : <a href="http://www.dennishavlena.com/acoustic.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.dennishavlena.com/acoustic.htm</a><br />
   I can&#8217;t guarantee it will work very well on the dilruba , but it looks like it would be quite &#8220;safe&#8221; for the skin.</p>
<p>Good luck,<br />
GurFateh.</p>
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		<title>By: Pritpal Singh</title>
		<link>http://harsangeet.com/2008/05/wanttobuyesraj/comment-page-1/#comment-130</link>
		<dc:creator>Pritpal Singh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 03:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harsangeet.com/?p=13#comment-130</guid>
		<description>Sat Ski Akal,

Thanks alot for the advice Manav. 

I&#039;ve managed to get a nice piece of ebony and am planning to start making my bridge tomorrow.  

When I bought my dilruba last year it came with a bridge that needed alot of work and I followed advice from the following link :

http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/dilruba/dilruba_bridge.html

which I&#039;m sure your familiar with, and patterned my bridge on that one. After the work my dilruba was making the most beautifull sound. Sadly it fell and broke.

I think I am going to make 2 different ones this time. One based on my previous design and one based on the honeycomb pattern that you describe. I&#039;ve also see that myself on other types of bridges.

I&#039;ll let you know how things go and what I find that the difference to be between the bone I had and the ebony I will be using.



Waheguru ji ka Khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fatheh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sat Ski Akal,</p>
<p>Thanks alot for the advice Manav. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve managed to get a nice piece of ebony and am planning to start making my bridge tomorrow.  </p>
<p>When I bought my dilruba last year it came with a bridge that needed alot of work and I followed advice from the following link :</p>
<p><a href="http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/dilruba/dilruba_bridge.html" rel="nofollow">http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/dilruba/dilruba_bridge.html</a></p>
<p>which I&#8217;m sure your familiar with, and patterned my bridge on that one. After the work my dilruba was making the most beautifull sound. Sadly it fell and broke.</p>
<p>I think I am going to make 2 different ones this time. One based on my previous design and one based on the honeycomb pattern that you describe. I&#8217;ve also see that myself on other types of bridges.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll let you know how things go and what I find that the difference to be between the bone I had and the ebony I will be using.</p>
<p>Waheguru ji ka Khalsa<br />
Waheguru ji ki fatheh</p>
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